Best bang for the buc?

[swheels]

After sitting on the computer most of the morning.Looking up 4 stroke motor parts and found some cool stuff.I even found a 160cc big bore kit that would fit most chinese made engines(125cc'sand up).Even stumbled acrossed a 4 stroke 188cc complete engine boasting a 20.8bhp(if my memory serves me correct) for a little under 700.00 bucs.I said that the motor for me that what i'm gonna get!Then that little voice came on in my head and what are you crazy!To pay that kind of money for a little over 20 bhp.When i can use half of that and by a decent watercooled 125cc 2smoker that will be just as fast.Then have money left to build the snot out odf the 2smoker then kill then 188cc.
Now since theres now offical class for midbikes i would more then likely be put in the modified class.If i stayed with the 138cc and upgrade it to a 146cc (300.00 bucs) to get maybe 11hp and still get killed by a 2 smoker.LOL Just don't seem right!
At some point in time i will try to dig up some kind of hp and trq rating chart on 4t's and 2t's.Then post it up side by side.I'm not trying to discourage anybody from the sticking with th 4t's.In fact i like the 4ts they just seem a little under powered if you go dollar for dollar.
I have discussed this with the nutty professor.He brought up the point that if you get the mix wrong with the 2 smoker.It could cost you a piston but i was thinking if you blow a 4 stroke then there could be alot more to replace.

This is an open debate so lets began.LOL

[giverrr]

I'd like to take a look at the 188cc, especially is it really has 20HP. My main beef with high output 2 strokes (as always) is that they usually don't last. When I look at 2 strokes in the 25-50hp range, I usually take +10HP off to make a good comparison since they are a little short in the torque department. Offer to much load or rough terrian and you might get passed by a 4 stroke. If you don't mind maintenance, 2 strokes offer great straight line performance-per-pound on the track.

[Midbike Racer]

Now since theres now offical class for midbikes i would more then likely be put in the modified class.If i stayed with the 138cc and upgrade it to a 146cc (300.00 bucs) to get maybe 11hp and still get killed by a 2 smoker.LOL Just don't seem right!
As far as the official classes, I would say they are just a starting point.
There just has not been enough classes for midbikes in other classes to go off of.
I have done many events with midbike racing but it was always just one class as part of a mini moto event.
Hopefully as the sport of midbike racing grows, the classes will evolve.thumbsup
I already have a few events for the East coast planned for next Spring/Summer.
By then, maybe we will have found a better class structure.

[The Nutty Professor]

This is what Swheels is talking about when he said I had a few points.

"Edwin sorry I missed your call. I know you're frustrated because I could hear it in your voice. But what you need to look at is are you going to stay in parking lots or race on the track? I know the answer to that but I want you to tell yourself. If you go to 2 smokes you'll have to look at what displacement you want to go with because I don't think you'll find a class to compete in if you drop in a 125. That is unless you want to race other 125's like Honda's and Yamaha's. With the development they have I don't think it would be pretty. 4 strokes at our level are just beginning. Even the 250 GP's and the 125's are going to 4 stroke by 2010 or 2011. What's got you so tied in knots? I know you think you're dropping money into this to make it faster...that's the game called racing. I also think it will become harder to find cheap go-fast parts for 2 smokes as time goes on if there are any to begin with (Cheap that is). I'm always looking at the 2 smokes but the reliability factory is a question too. If you get your tuning wrong with a 4 strong it runs bad and you come in off the track and fiddle with it. If a 2 smoke is bad there's a good chance you'll seize it then you have to buy a new piston and have the cylinder bored. What's the best value for you money? You're going to spend money on both, but for maintennance I think the 4 stroke is still the answer. Just my opinon."

Giverr added a few points I forgot about. Since I wrote that I did the old drop back to my bud the mechanic and he loves 2 smokes. He like the fact that they are so simple easy to work on, but to make them fast is an art. If you add one go-fast part you have to modify four other things to get the true potential out of it. The same can be true of a four stroke but those addition are usually bolt on or adjustments. I can't think of a single 2 smoke racer I know who has gone a single season on one motor, but I do know a lot of 4 strokers who have. They change their oil, check the compression, adjust a cam chain tensioner things like that. Those who did have to rebuilt a motor had to do it because they pushed to far for extra horses and lunched it. For some stat's you can start with this. I got the page from KURLON on PBP that guy has surprised me for a Tardhangloose.

http://www.x386.net/TTR/tech/dyno.html

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

hey that chart is cool
i need a dyno, i would dyno myself!
just run and run lol
really tho, id like to stay 4t cuz im familiar with it
ill get another 146 kit eventually but im happy with it so far
im not gonna get those crazy cutting edge kits and motors cuz i would blow it up
id rather get a mainstream 'tested setup and right now its the 146
and that runs with the 50cc 2t?
i dont wanna get lapped and lapped lol

[The Nutty Professor]

Blitz be careful what you wish for around mestirthepot I tried to upload a wordperfect file but it failed I'll start a thread and see how it goes.boxing

[swheels]

See that's one of my problems that 146cc should be running circles around the 50 2 smokers.I've looked at so many 4 stroke stuff.That i fried my brains and still trying to recover.The pricess OMG to build a decent 4 banger well i'll post most of the links i found.(Trying to go off memory)
http://www.mmbikes.co.uk/show.php?id=89
http://westbankimports.com/productdetails.php?product_id=239
http://westbankimports.com/productdetails.php?product_id=240
http://dratv.com/engineparts2.html
Ok this one not to bad?
http://www.ooracing.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=680
http://www.ooracing.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=797
This site will cause your wallet to commit sucideLOL
http://www.faster-minis.com/minibike-xr50_engine.html
http://www.outlawpowersports.com/category_s/66.htm
http://ahpminis.com/store/index.php?cPath=72
I thought this was a cool site.
http://www.hondatrailbikes.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=48_49
OOOOOOOOOHHHHH LOOOOOKYYY watercooled and it could actually be bought.http://www.ooracing.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=382
WHAOW PRICEY!!!!http://www.minibikeoutlet.com/parts/Engine/1935.html

There was another site with that 188cc monster can't find.But i will keep lookin or was i dreamingdunno

[The Nutty Professor]

There's no replacement for displacement Swheels but can you race it in a class? I know I sound like a broken record but The Mad Doctor wants to race and he has to stay within the displacement of the classes and kick buttboxing. You got the skills Doc but you have to find the right violin.

[swheels]

Well i figure a lot of the drag racers might like this stuff also.But i know you seen the watercooled motor along with the price.Pricey!But they do have some nice motors and packages.cheers

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

awsome stuff thanks guys!
now i just need like a grand....anyone?.....

[swheels]

I had a thought......Suppose the midbike class took off.Then there were factory sponsered teams running motors like these.That could mean big trouble for us average joe's.LOL

[The Nutty Professor]

No play it right and stay on top of what's going on and you become a rider team owner!thumbsup2

[The Nutty Professor]

Hey Mid Bike Racer can you give us a target to shot at? What classes do you think you might run? We want to have a target to build too. We don't want to show and have absolutely nowhere to play.banana

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

well what are the VIR classes and specs?
ill be 125cc 4t

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

ya that 160 class will be tough to run in with a 125
VIR is virginia international raceway and SWheels told us about an event in nov 2-3 that is for mid racing
so i was wondering what classes they would have