can this EFI system be true?

[rene13]

Can this be true? EFI systems might be a little closer to home than we think. And here it is http://www.electrojet.org/index.htm. I have already sent them email asking about their product, you might want to too, to show how much interrest there is for their product.bows_smiliethumbsup2

[The Nutty Professor]

Went through the site and it looks great thumbsup2 It sucks that they don't sell to the aftermarket thumb_down We'll have to wait for it to hit scooter's or pit's then snatch one and bring it over. I guess to bring the price down to a sell-able unit in the aftermarket they have to sell in volume first to generate capital which would allow them to sell cheap enough to have a viable aftermarket product? Oh well email sent Rene we'll see from there?

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

there should already be one we can use
scooters have them, they are singles close to our cc

[xxlarge420]

i would like to see what can be done using electronic fuel injection on these engines. those EFI systems look like they might almost just bolt up. if anyone has experimented with one please post your results and comments. too bad we cant just get one to experiment with. if anyone wants to toss me one i will gladly be the guinea pig and try it first.

[rene13]

I think if we are able to find this http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/global/news/2002/09/18/majesty.html it might work.thumbsup2

[rene13]

This is the response I got from them today.

RENE

Thank you for your interest in ElectroJet and our products!



The costs of the system for custom applications is quite high. However higher volume allows us to amortize up front costs into product at a much more reasonable price point. We typically match the mechanical geometry of the stock carburetor for ease of fitment and integration into existing designs. ElectroJet is currently investigating aftermarket products in multiple motorcycle arenas. The support costs can be high in addition to large upfront design costs. If you can help my team build a business case for your market, we would be more than happy to investigate offering products.



I need to know more detail about the types of engines (I assume single cylinder, four stroke, air cooled), applications, volumes of vehicles sold, and realistic ideas of volumes of EFI units that could penetrate the market.



Kyle Schwulst
ElectroJet Inc.
Skype: kschwulst
email: kschwulst@electrojet.org
web: www.electrojet.org

Can we build a case???:confused:

[rene13]

Maybe we can get a few people together in a group buy or something so like that to reduce the cost?

[The Nutty Professor]

Rene I get the feeling these guys are serious as hell speechless33 I wrote to them explaining the market and forwarded the Mid Bike Nation website. The response I got is here:

Hello Professor,

It is great to hear from you! We enjoy hearing interest in our products
from all sorts of applications. We fully realize how large the market is,
but meeting demand and balancing R&D investment is sometimes tricky. Over
the last year we have targeted the scooter market from an OEM standpoint
with great fervor. The volumes are tremendous. The aftermarket is also
very intriguing, but does pose some issue with the costs of technical
support.

Would you be willing and able to help pull some market numbers together for
your applications? We would need to make a business justification to enter
the market which you are taking about. It would be great to start with a
layman explanation of what SuperMotard, MiniMotard, and the other
classifications are. I am interested in the type of racing, type of engine
used (single cylinder 4-stroke?), estimated volumes, and more insight into
the perceived benefits of EFI to these customers. I am assuming most of
this will be performance based.

You are correct in that there is little complexity to the ElectroJet system.
Internally, the system is quite complex, but it is easily bolted on to any
engine without significant user headaches. We even have ways to ease the
calibration process to make the engines run as well as possible.

ElectroJet has developed an advanced auto-calibration algorithm, and is
planning to offer an aftermarket system for the Harley market within the
next year. It is not inconceievable to offer additional aftermarket
products, but we need to build the business case. If you would be willing
to help collect data for us, we are more than happy to look at offering a
product to this market.

Kyle Schwulst
ElectroJet Inc.
email: kschwulst@electrojet.org (http://webmail.windstream.net/agent/MobNewMsg?to=kschwulst@electrojet.org)
web: www.electrojet.org (http://www.electrojet.org)

Yes I think we can make the case but we're going to need a email campaign from every wesite even slightly interested. The ability for us to pull in true numbers is not feasible, or at least I don't believe so, but emails from everyone interested in the system will go a million miles toward proving our point. By this I mean emails from PlanetMini's, Pocket Bike planet, SuperMoto Junkies, Thumper Talk, KTM Talk, and even Kart site's like eKartnews, and 4 Cycle Karting Forums. There are probably a 100 sites with 50 or more people who would like to see EFI like this available even if they're blowing smoke about buying it. I'm going to start hitting up sites and listing which ones I posted threads on here. I'll put the links up in the post so anyone can follow them anywhere if they want. Rene started this but to get it done it's going to have to get way past our side and "Our Thing" to make it happen. Any and everyone who wants to throw in and run a thread on a site should just jump in and go with it. We've got to hit while the iron is hot and the weather is cold and guys are willing to sit down and write a email to the company. Ok guys let's show them what THE NATION can do http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z216/NuttyProfessorPS/Smileys/55.gifhttp://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z216/NuttyProfessorPS/Smileys/77.gif

[The Nutty Professor]

First thread is in the can and here she is:

http://www.planetminis.com/f71/efi-act-now-all-might-lost-71651.html#post738514

[The Nutty Professor]

Ain't no stopping me now! It's 1:15am here and I'm getting 5 threads out before I call it a night. Number #2

http://www.pocketbikeplanet.com/30-midbikes-superbikes/37527-efi-act-now-all.html#post322190

Number #3

http://www.supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?p=460211#post460211

Number #4

I put one in the Thumper Talk Tech Intake section but a moderator has to preview the thread before it will post so I can't put up the link yet.

Number #5

http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?p=1253386#post1253386

[rene13]

Hopely, his company can probably produce a EFI (Electronic Fuel Injection) system that can be used for 110cc-150cc applications especialy with our mods.thumbsup2

I have faith!!!

[The Nutty Professor]

Dude they can do it. Did you see the lawn-mower in the lite? If they can put one on a riding mower and a Thai scooter. 49cc-200cc is a piece of cake.

[swheels]

Worth a try.thumbsup2

But there's also an i believe aprillia scooter out there that has fuel injection also.How much do you really want to pay for the system?Because there's a company that make them for these motors it's just the price tag will give you a reality check. I'm pretty sure these guys are gonna be pricey also.
What's a good price?

[The Nutty Professor]

If they can keep it under $150 they'll blow everyone out of the water. At $200 they're get fewer customers (Something about that extra $50 kills people). But if it's mass produced for the scooter market $150 is a easy target for them and they will get race application which will give them some feedback on the products weaknesses and where they can improve the product.

[Kurlon]

If they can keep it under $150 they'll blow everyone out of the water. At $200 they're get fewer customers (Something about that extra $50 kills people). But if it's mass produced for the scooter market $150 is a easy target for them and they will get race application which will give them some feedback on the products weaknesses and where they can improve the product.

I don't see this being under 4 digits to be honest. It's going to have to be BIG volume to get down into the $500 range, and even that's a stretch. Price out the main EFI components on 1:1 bikes some time, and even with volume the price is high there.

[swheels]

I don't see this being under 4 digits to be honest. It's going to have to be BIG volume to get down into the $500 range, and even that's a stretch. Price out the main EFI components on 1:1 bikes some time, and even with volume the price is high there. The smaller you go the more you it cost.bluelaugh

[The Nutty Professor]

I believe a lot of the cost of the 1:1 EFI is all the electronic package? It I read their system correctly a lot of it is done without all the wiz-bang electronic's. That's why I think the price can be keep down. The only way to find out is to move the campaign forward and see what rolls out.

[The Nutty Professor]

Hitting the thread trail again. I have to try. This is to good to just let it go. Call me stupid, stubborn, crazy, or touched but you'll never call me a quitter.

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?p=1445908#post1445908

[redryderaus]

I don't see this being under 4 digits to be honest. It's going to have to be BIG volume to get down into the $500 range, and even that's a stretch. Price out the main EFI components on 1:1 bikes some time, and even with volume the price is high there.

I agree. These people aren't looking at doing the R&D for 10 units or even 100 units. They'll be looking at 1000+ units. As much as I hate to rain on your parade guys, unless you can show them a market several times that they ain't gonna bite. And remember that of the people that say they would buy it, at most 10% actually would.

Cheers,

red ausflag

[rene13]

How much are you all willing to pay for something like this if it were to come true?thumbsup2

[swheels]

How much are you all willing to pay for something like this if it were to come true?thumbsup2Well the pics i put up of the efi system is already available.I think it's like $2000 and it's for our little motor and programable with all the bells whistles.

[The Nutty Professor]

I agree. These people aren't looking at doing the R&D for 10 units or even 100 units. They'll be looking at 1000+ units. As much as I hate to rain on your parade guys, unless you can show them a market several times that they ain't gonna bite. And remember that of the people that say they would buy it, at most 10% actually would.

Cheers,

red ausflag


I also reluctantly agree with both of you, but they just wants the numbers to see what's out there. Giving it to them might get it done...but yes probably not. But if they do it's one more alternative and, it's wishing on a star, it might actually be somewhat affordable. I think $2000 is way way past what I'm willing to spend to replace a carby. Call me cheap dunno

[rene13]

It is funny how some people complain about not having available parts for these bikes; here is an opportunity to at least attempt get something done or try to get done and nothing. This system doesn't have to be a 2 grand part like the Japanese has. Think about it MADE IN U.S.A.patriot How often to you see that. I'm am moving foward with this as far as I can run with it.

My next mod will be an onboard touchscreen computer that I will be able to gain internet access, GPS, MP3 and MP4 and maybe get a friend to come up with a program that I can use with the CDI or something (the last thing is a maybe).bows_smiliethumbsup2

[rene13]

I also reluctantly agree with both of you, but they just wants the numbers to see what's out there. Giving it to them might get it done...but yes probably not. But if they do it's one more alternative and, it's wishing on a star, it might actually be somewhat affordable. I think $2000 is way way past what I'm willing to spend to replace a carby. Call me cheap dunno

I let them know that Nutty P started the campaign and we will see what happens and I also asked them to let me know what vehicles will have these systems in them (maybe find one and swipe)LOL.

Your right about the price. I have spent quite a bit of $$ on my mid and after all the bling I still debate about $2000 on an EFI system. All they want is the numbers. I sent them another email and voices my opinion about the cost and how it should work well just my twocents. I also told them that in order for the system to fit various motors all they would need is different manifolds and how it would work with our CDI ignitions. I also asked if there are any current vehicle out there that has this system that I could find to modify to fit my bike.

[swheels]

I would love to see this stuff or anything for the mids made in the usa.But you and i know what the price would be like,not far off from 2grand.Out sourcing seems to be the wave off the future for our country.

I'm willing to pay between $300 to $600 fro a good system.I wouldn't pay it off right off the bat.I would like to wait and see the reviews on it.I've seen a mega squirt system sell on ebay for $300.It was brandnew,infact it was so new that you had to put it together yourself.That meant soldering in all of the micro chips,diodes leds and compaciters to the pc boards.Then put everything in the alu box.(oh i forgot the wires also)

Rene i can see and understand your desire for this.You ride your bike everyday.As for myself as much as i would love the efi system.I really thought about it.If i go that high tech i gotta be doin some serious racing.Plus looking at the race schedule it deosn't look like thats gonna happen.rolleye0010

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

ya thats a lot of dough there
if i was gonna go that big, id get the rotary cart motor
its got to be affordable, maybe slightly more than the best carb

[redryderaus]

Rene, I'm not knocking the idea of a working EFI system for our engines. But I'm looking at it from a realist point of view knowing just how much it costs to develop such a thing, get it working then get it to market. Add to that the fact that most people would need it to be Plug&Play on any engine with any level of mods (because they are too lazy to learn even basic setup) and that quadruples the cost. What that company is doing is developing an OEM system for engine/motorcycle/power equipment manufacturers. That means each system is optimised for that engine in that application. And they currently have one prototype system working on one farm-type ATV. Not exactly a huge depth of product, is it?

As far as whinging about lack of parts goes, yes I'll agree that people who want to "buy it and bolt it on" with no learning effort on their part do whinge. Others actually take it in their stride and either make something that does what they want or modify an existing item. I'm one of the latter as are Swheels, Kurlon, Nutty and others. EFI systems already exist that suit our engines, it's just that they're not Plug&Play.

red

[The Nutty Professor]

I agree about the find and modify part Red. My problem where I live is that scooters have not caught on and are far and few. The models that are here are the cheap chinese carby model's and the Vespa. Of those the ready for the junk heap bikes are so trashed that even if they had EFI it wouldn't be serviceable. And the search continues.

[The Nutty Professor]

OK let's try this again. Typed up a response and it got blown away on the internet winds? Happening a lot to me lately?

Red I was reading a thread I started on PlanetMinis and one of the post put this up:

http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-technology/pgm-fi/p6.html

Considering it's Honda the parts are probably premo and adopting the system might prove a little troublesome but once done..."killer". Red have you seen this system on any scooters in your area? If so what models is it on? The time of the FrankenMid is here http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z216/NuttyProfessorPS/Smileys/eek.gif

[rene13]

OK let's try this again. Typed up a response and it got blown away on the internet winds? Happening a lot to me lately?

Red I was reading a thread I started on PlanetMinis and one of the post put this up:

http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-technology/pgm-fi/p6.html

Considering it's Honda the parts are probably premo and adopting the system might prove a little troublesome but once done..."killer". Red have you seen this system on any scooters in your area? If so what models is it on? The time of the FrankenMid is here http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z216/NuttyProfessorPS/Smileys/eek.gif


Check this out Nutty P. I have been doing some research on EFI's and well I found this but they don't sell to the public. If I could find who they supply around here.
http://www.synerject.com/pi.html

[The Nutty Professor]

Looking at the photo it looks like a Aprilia/Piaggio scooter. How are you finding this gold? Never mind just keep it coming. Even-though I'm reading through this stuff and want it I don't have the time to find it so every thing you find is very much appreciated http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z216/NuttyProfessorPS/Smileys/77.gif

[swheels]

Looking at the photo it looks like a Aprilia/Piaggio scooter. How are you finding this gold? Never mind just keep it coming. Even-though I'm reading through this stuff and want it I don't have the time to find it so every thing you find is very much appreciated http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z216/NuttyProfessorPS/Smileys/77.gifI mentioned in a earlier post it's that an aprillia scooter has efi.Now i remeber the model aprillia rs50.

[rene13]

I just trying to make my "Gold Digger" I lil more reliable.
I think that name you our swheels came up with that.

I figure If I ride her as much as I can I can do my share of saving the enviroment...

Your right swheels I remember now. I just got to find who has them and for how much.

[swheels]

I just trying to make my "Gold Digger" I lil more reliable.
I think that name you our swheels came up with that.

I figure If I ride her as much as I can I can do my share of saving the enviroment...

Your right swheels I remember now. I just got to find who has them and for how much. Here's the model and i made a mistake.The scooter is the sr and the rs are the bikes 50cc,125 and i think the 250cc. here a link with the specs on the scooter.(a friend of mines as the efi scooter back in ct mabey i'll give him call to get some info)
https://my.bizshop.com.au/scootershop/index.php?main_page=product_info&manufacturers_id=1&products_id=31

[swheels]

Ok i'm not sure now cause it didn't take the time to read it fully through.Here's something on a direct injection on the aprillia scooters.Well it seems that aprillia has had efi systems in there scooter since 1999.Now there gotta be some parts scooters around some where.Well there you go fellas it's been here we're just late.
http://www.speed-sports.com/motorscooters/scooter_models/aprilia_scooters/ditech.html
http://www.motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/2006_bikes/sr50r_factory.html

[rene13]

I brewing up some ideas like an on board computer that will have my music and video stored, GPS, Phone and matbe talk to the engine in some way. (kinda of a smart mid)crazy_smilie

Yall have seen those product that don't work. Yes, I fell for it. When I first got interested in mids, I got censor_d into buying this cause I wasn't thinking. I can put it to use. When get my oil cooler make a custom shround out of carbon fiber and use this "turbo blower" POS to blow like its supose to.

[Blitz$M.Inc.$]

gigglebluelaugh

[The Nutty Professor]

gigglebluelaugh

giggle002 http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z216/NuttyProfessorPS/Smileys/poo.gif Rene everyone falls for something at one time or another. I surprised this is the first time I've seen that particular one. Seems to be well thought out to pull in the http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z216/NuttyProfessorPS/Smileys/knob.gif But is the weight worth it compared to having just a small shrouded fan? But this is a thought use some of that blue bling hose and route it to make it look like your bike is running a turbo. Polish up the housing and make it look the part. Just my twocents

[rene13]

I thought about it but I just want everything on the bike to be used to the max. It is light weight, fast and can really blow. I will run the oil cooler from the cases and not the head with a carbon fiber shroud attached with the fan to cool it. I want to position it a little above the head so whatever air already passed through can cool the head.

[xxlarge420]

can u buy the EFI for the honda 125cc scooter as a replacement part and if u can how much does it cost for everything? it looks like the closest one to fit so far. and it looks really nice.

[xxlarge420]

I brewing up some ideas like an on board computer that will have my music and video stored, GPS, Phone and matbe talk to the engine in some way. (kinda of a smart mid)crazy_smilie

Yall have seen those product that don't work. Yes, I fell for it. When I first got interested in mids, I got censor_d into buying this cause I wasn't thinking. I can put it to use. When get my oil cooler make a custom shround out of carbon fiber and use this "turbo blower" POS to blow like its supose to.

is that an electric fan that u clamp to the front of your carb to push airflow like a supercharger into the engine? it just doesnt resemble a real turbo to me.

[rene13]

can u buy the EFI for the honda 125cc scooter as a replacement part and if u can how much does it cost for everything? it looks like the closest one to fit so far. and it looks really nice.

You could but finding someone that has it(dealer or merchant) would be the difficult part.